The Heart of the Matter
Most of my Blogs are me pontificating on me.
Now I'm putting out a clarion cry for help to other marathoners far more experienced than I for a little assistance and a little coaching insight.
As of this moment I am a little stymied by the results and bio- feedback I am getting in my Hill Training work outs. Here is the situation -
Lately during Hill Training - multiple Hills of a good grade for several hundred meteres - I am running until I'm almost ready to throw up and I have nothing, I mean, NOTHING, left. At the top of the hill I am left bent over at the waist, hands on my knees, gasping for breath and fighting off waves of nausea.
I tend to do the Hills in sets. Easy, Medium, Hard, Easy, Medium, Hard and then two Hard Hills back to back. I allow my heart rate to recover to 130 or below. I usually take 90 second breaks between Hills, never more than three minutes. (We started off doing 4 Hills and our training schedule calls for us to work up to a dozen before we then switch to doing intervals in preparation for an October marathon. In my case the Okanagan Marthon in Kelowna on October 9th)
And yet even after 8 hills my legs and lungs give out before my heart rate gets much up over 180. If that!
When I do 8K tempo runs with Hugh and Patrick - in the 31 -34 minute range, by the end of four kilometres, if I wanted to, I could get my heart rate up to 180 easily, and in the last 500 metres I can crank out 190 and above.
I am doing my Hill Training the day after my tempo run. Am I not allowing enough time to recover? Should I allow two days before doing Hills?
Just two years ago I would see mid 190s all the time during Hill training.
Three and four years ago I would see over 200. It was these hill work outs with my Polar Heart rate monitors that led me to believe that my maximum heart rate was around 205.
An important note to point out is that when I started training for my first marathons five years ago, I weighed 220 pounds and what must have been a body fat percentage of around 30%. This spring I weighed 203 pounds and had a hydrostatic measured body fat percentage of 22%. As of right now, I weigh 185 pounds and I think my body fat percentage is around 14%. Is this possibly efffecting my heart rate in training?
Oh great marathoners out there in the void I beseech you to hear my pleas - What do you think is happening?
Some research I've looked at on the internet says that as you become fitter it becomes harder and harder to approach your Maximum heart rate, but I am now a little bit concerned about my heart rate training zones - especially as I am getting so close to trying to qualify for Boston.
I look forward to any words of wisdom or proffered advice.
Now I'm putting out a clarion cry for help to other marathoners far more experienced than I for a little assistance and a little coaching insight.
As of this moment I am a little stymied by the results and bio- feedback I am getting in my Hill Training work outs. Here is the situation -
Lately during Hill Training - multiple Hills of a good grade for several hundred meteres - I am running until I'm almost ready to throw up and I have nothing, I mean, NOTHING, left. At the top of the hill I am left bent over at the waist, hands on my knees, gasping for breath and fighting off waves of nausea.
I tend to do the Hills in sets. Easy, Medium, Hard, Easy, Medium, Hard and then two Hard Hills back to back. I allow my heart rate to recover to 130 or below. I usually take 90 second breaks between Hills, never more than three minutes. (We started off doing 4 Hills and our training schedule calls for us to work up to a dozen before we then switch to doing intervals in preparation for an October marathon. In my case the Okanagan Marthon in Kelowna on October 9th)
And yet even after 8 hills my legs and lungs give out before my heart rate gets much up over 180. If that!
When I do 8K tempo runs with Hugh and Patrick - in the 31 -34 minute range, by the end of four kilometres, if I wanted to, I could get my heart rate up to 180 easily, and in the last 500 metres I can crank out 190 and above.
I am doing my Hill Training the day after my tempo run. Am I not allowing enough time to recover? Should I allow two days before doing Hills?
Just two years ago I would see mid 190s all the time during Hill training.
Three and four years ago I would see over 200. It was these hill work outs with my Polar Heart rate monitors that led me to believe that my maximum heart rate was around 205.
An important note to point out is that when I started training for my first marathons five years ago, I weighed 220 pounds and what must have been a body fat percentage of around 30%. This spring I weighed 203 pounds and had a hydrostatic measured body fat percentage of 22%. As of right now, I weigh 185 pounds and I think my body fat percentage is around 14%. Is this possibly efffecting my heart rate in training?
Oh great marathoners out there in the void I beseech you to hear my pleas - What do you think is happening?
Some research I've looked at on the internet says that as you become fitter it becomes harder and harder to approach your Maximum heart rate, but I am now a little bit concerned about my heart rate training zones - especially as I am getting so close to trying to qualify for Boston.
I look forward to any words of wisdom or proffered advice.
posted by Vince Hemingson at 10:35 AM
5 Comments:
As for your hill training, I experienced the same thing during our Hill training this spring. And I've found the same things you have noted in the available literature.
Your heart gets stronger the fastest. It can adapt much quicker than your lungs and your body's
efficiency improves much more slowly.
So, you still need to pump the same amount of blood to your muscles, but your heart doesn't work as hard anymore.
I noticed that if still feels just as hard running the hills (same O2
consumption because your efficiency is roughly the same).
Also my lungs can't really deliver more oxygen, therefore I'm breathing just as hard. But my HR is lower because my heart is stronger.
I would suggest you try to run more according to your pace, rather than your HR, and try to
slightly adjust your HR zones based on your experience.
Breathing should be a good indicator (remember lung efficiency should be still the same).
Welcome to the human race. Like all of us you are getting older.
The good news is your V02 is going up and your max heart rate each year would be declining at a lesser rate than if you did not exercise.
What you need to do for Boston is to not over train and avoid injury. Continue to carefully drop the weight. Everything else will fall into place. In other words you won't need a heart rate of 180 to 190+. All you will need is in the 160's to low 170's for the marathon event.
Based on your speed and endurance you are very much on track in achieving your objective for qualifying for Boston.
Keep up the good work you are making great progress!
Vince,
I say, "Ask yourself, Why run hills?" If the answer is (and my understanding of Lydiard's theories says) "to build strength." Then you're doing them wrong. Lydiard has hills done on grass to minimize impact and uses a short stride but high knee action and hard leg drive combined with high arm action. It's really that leg drive repeated that builds the strength. The body is being accelerated from near zero to moving quickly again and again. What happens to your heart rate means little or nothing. This is about strength!
Don't sweat the issue, but do the workout the right way.
It's been a few years since I've taken any physiology courses but I have some thoughts that might be worth considering.
When we do the hills we're expecting our bodies to increase our heart rates by 40-50 beats in about 35 seconds. In order to do this requires a wave of pressure to go through our circulatory system, and this probably takes a minute to equilibrate out before the beats get faster. Although the heart might be able to increase faster it probably doesn't feel the need to until a sufficient pressure of blood returns to the heart.
In my case I think the variation in blood pressure in my head and ears caused my problems. In your case perhaps the additional supply of blood just doesn't have the time to get into your legs.
In the spring the initial hills we did took over 1.5 min and my heart rate went much higher. I'm sure you can find some articles that discuss the different effects of running a 35 second hill versus a 60 second or longer hill. I would be interested to know what the experts say... and please don't mention who in the group wants longer hills!
Let me get this straight.
You turned 45 last week.
On Saturday you ran 64 kilometres through the mountains in 7:41 at 70 odd percent of your max heart rate.
Three nights later you ran 8K in 35 minutes at about 87 percent of your max.
Then you followed that up with Hill training on back to back nights and still got over 85 percent of your max.
Are ya mad, man!?!
I wish I had your heart problems,
Vince!
If I was you, it would be my sanity I'd be worried about.
Don't kill yourself lad before you get to Boston.
And be careful losing that last ten pounds.
Make it body fat and not muscle.
At 175 pounds, you will be tempted to try for speeds you haven't seen in twenty-odd years.
Listen to Michael and Hugh and Wayne. Take the 3:20 qualifying time and save the best for Boston.
Last I heard, Scooter was buying.
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